Episode 65: Facebook Advertising for eCommerce – Keys to 8,000% Returns

Facebook has evolved tremendously over the last few years and is now a viable ad platform for many online merchants. What used to often be described as a channel that is “hard to track,” “fuzzy,” “used for customer engagement only,” is now consistently driving measurable sales when used properly.

William Harris, founder of Elumnyt, a Growth & Marketing Agency, joins the show to share his insights. William was an early adopter of Facebook ads. Early in his career he caught the attention of Facebook because he was spending so much on Facebook ads. They then reached out to him to write a case study on the success of the campaigns.

In this episode we cover the ins and outs of success with Facebook ads, including:
1. What’s the key to getting 8,000% returns – and is that level of success even possible for eCommerce stores?
2. Where should a merchant start with Facebook ads?
3. What ad formats and structure are often best for driving eCommerce sales?
4. What are the most common mistakes eCommerce merchants make with Facebook ads?
5. How can you sell bidets using Facebook ads (not sure how we ended up here, but we did)?
plus more
As always, let us know what you think of this episode and leave us a review on iTunes.

Stay Classy!



Brett Curry:
[00:00:30] Hello. Welcome to another edition of the Llama Commerce Show. I am your host Brett Curry, lead strategist at Classy Llama. As always we exist to demystify eCommerce into actionable bytes. I am super excited about the show topic, today. As you all know I am a marketing guy at heart. I specialize in search marketing, that’s my passion, but I love any and all marketing that works, and drives customers and sales. Today, we’re talking about Facebook advertising specifically for eCommerce, this is something that obviously is not new, but really finding eCommerce companies that are doing Facebook marketing well, is rare. Finding someone who is getting eight thousand percent return on ad spent for some campaigns is even more rare.

[00:01:00] Today, we’re going to talk about how can you get that kind of crazy return with Facebook ads, this is all about Facebook ads for eCommerce. I want to intro my guest, actually a good friend of mine, we partner on some deals. We spoke at an event together, recently. RSCE in Chicago, which was a ton of fun. I got to tell the story about how I met our guest, just really quickly, because it’s fun. I was working with a client, Dollar Hobbyz, they sell remote control car parts, a really fun client.

[00:01:30] The owners one day told me, they said, “Hey. We want to introduce you to our friend, William, and William is one of the smartest guys we know. He’s been running Facebook ads for his company. He was spending so much money, doing so well that Facebook called him and said, “What are you doing?” I had this picture, because his name is William, I had this picture of William Wallace riding in, kilt and sword, talking about Facebook ads, and how they’re so powerful. Anyway, enough of that. I would like to welcome Mr. William Harris, CEO of Elumynt. William, thanks for being on the show. I’m really excited to dive into this topic.

[00:02:00] William Harris :

Likewise, here. I’ll just show you real quickly, kilt, in case anybody, no, I’m wearing jeans, today, never mind. Sorry.

Brett Curry:
Yeah. It was so funny that lead up. Let’s do this really quickly. People are dying to know if they show the title, or heard the intro. Eight thousand percent return, come on, that’s not possible. Before we look at that, talk about how did you start with Facebook ads, and what was the quick story behind Facebook reaching out to you? I am guessing it wasn’t Mark Zuckerberg, himself, but probably someone else from Facebook, reaching out to you. Talk about that, just quickly.

[00:02:30] William Harris :
Sure. I was working at SAS company, software as a service, called, When I Work. We sold, it was employee scheduling software for hourly workers, so that way if you are trying to trade shifts, things like that, it made it a lot easier. I took over the marketing team, there, and we’re doing a bunch of Facebook ads to the point, I think, when we started off it was just a couple thousand dollars, and without getting into the details of what we spent towards the end there, because I don’t know if I’m allowed to say that …

Brett Curry:
Yeah.

William Harris :
We were spending …

Brett Curry:
A lot.

William Harris :
[00:03:30] A ton of money. Right, a lot, and spending it profitably, every single month, which for a SAS company that has a starting price of twenty bucks a month, it’s not something that you would think you should be able to spend a lot of money on paid acquisition, and be able to get that kind of return. Part of what helped us do really well was really digging in to who our audience was, and figuring out the right targeting, and stuff. The other part was optimizing our website. Actually, there’s an article on optimizing, where I talk about one of the AB tests we did on the homepage, that increased our conversion rate by forty-eight percent.

[00:04:00] Obviously, if you increase your conversion rate that decreases your cost by the opposite of that. We were more cost effective in what we were doing. That helped. We got to this point, then, where Facebook reached out and said, “Hey. We want to do a case study, kind of on what you guys are doing,” they did, they put up a case study about the kind of results that we were getting, and Facebook even recommended me on LinkedIn, which was pretty cool. This was earlier on in my career, actually, I think my first year officially as a marketer, so to be getting that kind of recognition from a company like Facebook …

Brett Curry:
That’s awesome.

William Harris :
Yeah. Blew my mind.

Brett Curry:
Yeah. Very cool. It’s worth pointing out, also, that William you write for some pretty heavy hitting online publications. You write for Search Engine Journal. You write for SellBrite. You write for Entrepreneur. You’ve got your own blog at Elumynt, which is fantastic. What are some of the other places that you write for, regularly?

[00:04:30] William Harris :
You’ve pretty much summed it up, there. That social media to date, the next web vest company, there’s a lot of different places. [inaudible 00:04:35]. I am going to actually try to start working on writing even more, too, I recently hired an editor, and a researcher, to kind of help speed the process a long, so I can do a little bit more writing. We’ll see.

Brett Curry:
[00:05:00] That’s fantastic. I’ve gotten into writing, a little bit more, I actually enjoy it, I’ve been published a few times. You and I have collaborated on a couple of things. It’s so powerful. You meet people through good posts that are published, it’s just hard to find time. It’s cool that you are building a team. That’s awesome. Okay. I’m sure that a lot of people are asking, eight thousand percent, okay, whatever, like you spent a few dollars, and something magical happened, it was a fluke. Is that legitimate? Is that real? Talk to me about that before we dive into the specifics.

William Harris :
[00:06:00] It is legitimate. It is real. It is not every campaign. It is not every customer. A lot of this depends on having the right type of customers. Right? Can you sell apples on Facebook twenty percent return on ad spent? Maybe not. I might have a little bit of a hard time doing that, but other things, yes. There are factors, that I think come into play with all advertising. E-commerce, SAS, or anything. One of the big things is your AOV, your average order value. If your average order value is five dollars, it’s going to be really hard for me to acquire customers at a reasonable rate, for you, no matter what advertising platform you are doing. If it’s five hundred dollars, a whole different scenario. Part of it means having the right setup, the right products that you’re selling, a decent brand to work with, and work behind, but there is also a lot of other secret sauces that I think that we are going to get into a little bit later on that I can kind of share with people, too.

Brett Curry:
[00:06:30] Yeah. Just to kind of let people know our roadmap. You don’t want to get into specific ad types, specific strategies, exactly how you do this. I think it’s important, and I kind of mentioned this in the intro, that I’m a marketing guy, I love marketing, I love search, I love PPC, Google Shopping is a specialty that we have. I think it’s important, how does Facebook differ from AdWords, and PPC, and some of the search driven traffic sources? How do you position Facebook against those?

William Harris :
[00:07:00] Yeah. This is my personal take on it. AdWords, is really great at satisfying demand. Right? Imagine, you say to yourself, I’m hungry, and then three store owners, like shove apples in your face, and the one that’s paying a little bit more has the ability to put it just a little bit closer to your face. You’re a little bit more likely to pick that apple. That’s AdWords, it’s very algorithmic, it’s very much based on this idea of what keywords are working, what keywords aren’t working, what time of day, what’s your bid strategy, it’s very algorithmic. Right?

Brett Curry:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

William Harris :
[00:07:30] Whereas Facebook, I think, is a little bit, those things are important there, too, but it takes it a little bit, and creates demand. Instead of saying that you’re hungry, you say, I’m hungry, but I don’t know what I want, so this time you are looking at it and Facebook is going to maybe start looking at your likes, it’s going to look at your interests, it’s going to look at different demographics with you, and it’s going to look at how are you normally hungry. You might not even say that you’re hungry, yet, but your stomach is rumbling, you don’t even realize you’re hungry, and now all of a sudden you see an ad for a pear. This pear is juicy, and it’s got an image associated with it. It’s got some really creative copy that entices you …

Brett Curry:
One of those Arian David pears.

William Harris :

[00:08:00] There you go. Right. It says, this is the healthiest fruit that you could have, and you say, you know what? I am hungry. I really want a pear. It’s creating that demand in what you otherwise wouldn’t have already had. Does that make sense?

Brett Curry:
[00:08:30] Yeah. It does. The thing about search based marketing, it’s how I cut my teeth, and how I got into online marketing, so I love it. I do love the aspect of figuring out what are people typing in, and then what is the intent behind that, and what are people actually looking for, and what key words indicate the types of problems that we could solve for our clients, products could solve, trying to solve that puzzle, and that riddle. The thing with search, and so we’re talking about Google Shopping, at RSCE, and I spoke at Ezra Firestones event in San Diego, talking about Google Shopping, recently, it is limited, though, because you’re limited to the number of queries. Right? I can only show my ad for, I don’t know why you’re picking fruit …

William Harris :
It’s almost lunch time.

Brett Curry:
[00:09:00] You’re limited by the number of people that search for apple, or for pear, or for a hoagie sandwich, or whatever. If someone is not searching for it, you cannot show up for it. Right? That’s where Facebook is different in that it’s demographic based, and you can find people that fits your target demo, and to be really smart, like writing ads at lunch time, and things like that, and you can drive people. I remember, have you ever heard of a guy named, Eugene Shwartz?

William Harris :
Yeah. Of course.

Brett Curry:
[00:09:30] This will show my marketing nerdiness, and yours, too, apparently. I love a quote he said. He said, “As marketers, we don’t create demand, but we channel existing demand.” I think the difference with Facebook is, it’s demand where someone doesn’t really have any idea where they are going. Right? They are just sitting out there, no direction. As marketers, we can really point them. I think that’s exactly what you’re saying, just maybe a slightly different spin.

William Harris :
[00:10:00] Yeah. I’ve heard people talk about the idea of the limbic system, and that you buy based on this reptilian brain, and I don’t know how much I get into all of that, but I really like the psychology of it. It’s that idea of you buy without even realizing why you’re buying. Now, you rationalize it very quickly afterwards on why you made that choice, or why you made that purchase, but Facebook, I think is giving you as a marketer that opportunity to tap into these more subconscious dreams of people, and kind of suggesting that they want …

Brett Curry:
Yeah.

William Harris :
This as opposed to them already knowing and searching for it.

Brett Curry:
Right. Let’s get tactical, here, just …

William Harris :
Okay.

Brett Curry:
[00:10:30] For a little bit, and let’s kind of maybe talk about some of the secrets of eight thousand percent return on ads spent. First, I think, when I talk to clients, because a lot of times, I’m wanting to introduce them to you, or at least just start the conversation, I’ll say, “Hey. Are you guys running Facebook ads?” “Oh. Yeah. We’re boosting our posts.” That’s what they equate Facebook advertising with, “Yes. We wrote a blog last week, and we boosted it for fifteen dollars. Yeah. We’re running Facebook ads.” That’s not what you’re doing, I know. What’s the secret to big returns? What are some of the tactics you’re utilizing to get there?

William Harris :
[00:11:00] Sure. I think it starts by kind of setting up a game plan on how you are going to do this, and obviously we are going to look at this from a strictly eCommerce perspective. If you are not eCommerce, you can maybe tune out, but don’t, because we want more viewers.

Brett Curry:
Exactly.

William Harris :
[00:11:30] I’m just kidding. Anyway, what I like to look at is there’s different levels of the types of campaigns we want. One of the most important ones are, you want to increase the conversion rate that you already have of traffic that you already have coming to your website. Right? They’ve come, you’re converting at a two and a half percent, you’d love to convert it to two point seven percent, how do you do that? You can do on page stuff, but you can also remarket those people. You can remarket them in AdWords, but you can also remarket them on Facebook. I find that I see certain companies depending on what you’re selling do better on Facebook than they would on AdWords, and vice versa.

[00:12:30] One of the things that I really like about Facebook’s retargeting, is you can get very granular with it. They have what’s called, Dynamic Product Retargeting. If somebody visits that particular product, a very specific product on your website, and then logs out, maybe they added it to their cart, or they don’t, but they log out, they don’t buy it, and then they are back on Facebook. They can see an ad for that exact product, or ads for products that are extremely relevant to that based on your product feed that you’ve submitted to Facebook. It gives that very one to one marketing that you know that they’re interested in this, they’ve looked at it. They’ve maybe even already added it to their cart. They’re very high intent on wanting to purchase this, so just give them that little nudge back into that direction, rather than just a general ad about who you are as a company, or something like that. I really like that aspect to things, and that’s one of the things …

Brett Curry:
[crosstalk 00:12:44] recommend people to start, so someone starting on Facebook they would often, they should start with Dynamic Retargeting?

William Harris :
[00:13:30] If they have a lot of product. Yes. If they have thirty thousand products, it’s a great way to get a huge return right away. If you have ten products, I’m going to suggest that you probably don’t use the Dynamic Retargeting, as much as we’ll set up with more custom rule based retargeting, and you’d have a little bit prettier ads. The reason why is the feeds that you are going to get, the ads from the Dynamic Retargeting are not the prettiest, it’s kind of like a set standard ad, it’s got the picture of the image of the product, it’s got the price, it’s got the title, that’s about it. There’s not a whole lot you can do to make your standout from somebody else’s, or make yours more enticing than somebody else’s. If you have good product photography, that helps, but you’re still limited. If you’ve only got a handful of products, and these are the products that you sell, and they’re higher priced products, then I think you should go a little bit more in depth with those in making very, very specific ads that are a little bit more psychological.

Brett Curry:
Got it. Retargeting, we’re looking at either Dynamic Retargeting, if we’ve got several products in our inventory, or maybe something more focused and psychological, if we’ve got limited inventory. What else are we doing? What else should we be looking at as we’re trying to tee up these amazing returns?

William Harris :
[00:14:30] Yeah. The other thing that you need to be looking at is setting up the right audience, the right targeting, so now when you’re not looking at retargeting people have already visited your website, who do you want to require as new customers? This is the secret sauce. If you wan to know how to get eight thousand percent return on ads spent, you need to be retargeting your audience, and then you need to be targeting the correct audience. You need to set up really good customer personas, if you don’t, since it’s less algorithmic, knowing your audience psychologically makes all the difference in the world. You want to know what they like, what they dislike. You want to know where they shop, what time do they shop, do they even buy online? You can find that out there are things that you can layer on to your audience that says, these are people who purchase online, so that you know that they are more likely to purchase online, again.

[00:15:30] There’s all these little granularity’s of your particular customer segment that you want to know. That sets up the targeting, but it doesn’t stop there, knowing your customers personas also helps you determine what image should you use for this. If they really like clean line stuff, and you use a very cluttered image, it’s not going to convert, there’s that whole ugly converts better, right, sometimes you see these really just horrible looking ads, and they have case studies to back up on them, converting better than other ones. I think it depends on, one, your audience, maybe your audience does really well with it. Two, the placement. An ugly ad might do really well if it’s jarring enough to shake up your world, but a clean ad will do really well, too, if it’s jarring enough still, but a jarringly clean ad that shakes up an ugly world.

Brett Curry:
Yeah. I don’t see those, and I know exactly what you are talking about, those jarringly weird ads. Usually they’re on news sites on Yahoo, or something, and they do grab your attention, but I don’t see that as much on Facebook, and probably not the best place for that type of ad.

William Harris :
[00:16:00] Yeah. I’m not a huge fan of them. I think that long term it does more damage to your brand, and probably bringing in the wrong types of customers. You have to look at this from a positioning standpoint, too, which if you are not familiar with positioning, one of my favorite people to listen to is Dick Marjorie, the CEO of [inaudible 00:16:13]. He’s got a lot of good stuff out there about positioning. I think it was based on a lot of stuff that Jack Trout did.

Brett Curry:
Yeah.

William Harris :
[00:16:30] Just that idea of what do you want people to think of when they’re thinking of your brand? You are only going to get one positioning statement, for the most part. You cannot be the best priced, and the most in stock, and the best customer service, there’s one kind of thing that you’re going to latch into, and so figuring out what you want that to be, and if you want to be just this low cost, maybe junkie looking ads will work for you. Maybe you will attract the right customers, and that’s just fine.

Brett Curry:
[00:17:00] Yeah. I think it does come, obviously comes back to knowing your customer, understanding your customer. What are some tips you would maybe give related to that, in terms of the types of audience layering that a merchant should look at? I know you’ve hit on a few of those. Anything to add to that? Maybe, because I know I’ve seen you in action as you guys are building out these audiences, and testing them, and usually testing several, but for someone who has never done it, what should they maybe look at, in terms of layering in audience targeting?

William Harris :
[00:18:00] I actually don’t like to go too granular at the very beginning. Because I want to start seeing what is and isn’t converting. Find something that you do know about your audience. One of the easiest ways to do that is Facebook Audience Insights. If you have a list of customers who’ve already converted on your website, this is the ideal audience, these are the people who purchased on your website, not necessarily ones who’ve subscribed, and things like that, people who purchased, and maybe even the people who purchased routinely, you can upload that audience to Facebook Audience Insights, and get a little bit more information about who these people are. You are going to start finding some of those demographics.

[00:19:00] Start off a little bit less granular, and then start adding in what you think, based on what you’re seeing, here, and break those out into different campaigns. Of some reason, let’s say you’re just doing a geographical based one, or let’s say it’s demographics of age, so you’re pretty sure that eighteen to twenty-five year olds like your products the most. You don’t want to eliminate people that are about twenty-five, because they might also like it, so break those into different ad sets. Facebook’s, kind of got a tiered thing, which we didn’t talk about, there’s campaigns, and then below that is ad sets, so you get multiple ad sets within one campaign, and then below that are the actual ads. Make that into a separate ad set with the same ad campaign, so it’s got the same goal, but you maybe have that audience that you have, eighteen to twenty-five, and then that same audience for twenty-five to thirty-five, that same audience, thirty-five to forty-five. You can start to see which one is converting better, worse, and you’ll start to learn more about your audience by doing it that way.

Brett Curry:
Got you. Maybe when you’re starting up be a little bit broader, more open, and then narrow as you see the results coming in.

William Harris :
Yeah. Narrow intelligently based on what you know about your customer.

Brett Curry:
Right. What are some of the mistakes you see merchants making? Specifically in eCommerce, but this could be Facebook in general. What are some mistakes you see people making around Facebook ads?

[00:19:30] William Harris :

The number one mistake is not doing it. There’s just too many people not doing it.

Brett Curry:
There’s a lot of people who are intimidated by it. Right?

William Harris :
Sure.

Brett Curry:
There’s a lot to this. It’s intimidating.

William Harris :
[00:20:30] Yeah. Absolutely. I’d say the biggest mistake outside of not knowing your customers, though, is not putting the right creatives out. If you’ve got maybe you’ve got this trial version of Adobe Light or Photoshop, and you’re going to try to make your ad yourself, you might not be an advertiser, so you know your audience, try to convey that to somebody who is a copywriter, and somebody who is a graphic designer, who can make, who understands how to grab attention. When you’re scrolling through the news feed, a white and blue ad, that’s the same color as a Facebook ad, it’s not going to convert as highly. Why? Because you’re not going to see it, so these are things that you might not be thinking about if you’re not a graphic designer who’s got a background in advertising. If you are, you are going to say, I want something that’s going to jump out at me, because that image is the first thing that I’m going to do to stop somebody from scrolling.

[00:21:00] Now, once I’ve got them, the very next thing that they are going to see outside of that image is the headline, it’s like the big bold text, that’s probably where their eyes are most likely going to go, because that’s where the next focus point is. Having good copy there is going to further affirm that they want to read more. They read that, they think, oh, that’s interesting, they are probably quickly going to scan the other text that you have there, anything else that’s going on, and then they are going to click to go purchase this, or whatever. If you are not looking at it from an advertising perspective, if you’re not working with a copywriter, who understands what words convert, and don’t convert, you might miss out on a lot of conversion, and then write Facebook ads off as it’s not working for you. I think that’s where the mistake come from, people try it, and they are like, it’s because it’s not that hard to setup, once you get in there, but they try it and they say, oh, it didn’t work for us.

Brett Curry:
[00:22:00] Yeah. That’s so important to get, first identifying the right people, than having an ad that actually stops those people in their tracks, and makes them want to take action, and take the right kind of action. As you know there’s a lot of psychology in terms of writing copy and images that drastically can impact whether something actually works, or not. Let’s talk a little bit about, I know we are kind of hitting this from all different angles, but in the end it will be helpful for viewers. What are some of the more advanced techniques? I know you’ve touched on some of them. Some of the advanced stuff, and maybe how it differs for eCommerce verses non eCommerce. Anything additional in terms of advance stuff that you haven’t already shared.

William Harris :
[00:22:30] The one to one, Dynamic Retargeting, we talked about is a bit more advanced as far as setting it up. It’s not the easiest to set up your product feed, there. You may need a little bit of help getting that up and running, but once you do, it is a tactic that I think works really well. The other big thing is you might already have your Facebook pixel installed, you’re able to track if their going to your website, but there are these things called Standard Events, that’s what Facebook calls it. You want to make sure that you set these up, and they’re little events that are going to fire on different key pages. One might be that they viewed the content, that’s what is going to tell Facebook that they’ve seen this product, but haven’t added it to their cart. Another one might be added to cart, or purchased, or purchase value.

[00:23:30] Adding these standard events to your Facebook pixel, allows you to have more rich data, so that way when you are going to create a ad you can create an ad around an audience of people who have added things to their cart, but haven’t purchased. That’s a much more relevant ad, and now when you get to the end of the month, if you’ve added in the purchase and the purchase value, you know that you spent twenty thousand dollars this month on Facebook ads, you made four hundred thousand dollars on Facebook ads. You know what was working, and this campaign spent a thousand dollars, and made nine hundred, that campaign wasn’t working. You know where you should scale up, and where you should scale back.

Brett Curry:
[00:24:00] Yeah. Great. Can you talk any about any specifics and the eight thousand percent return, if any, whatever details you can share about that and maybe specific account? Talk me through some actual examples. Some case studies. I know you have client confidentiality, so you cannot open the comodo totally. Talk about some actual, like what would this actually look like for a merchant.

William Harris :
[00:24:30] Yeah. That’s a good question. I do, I want to think, just a bit to make sure that I don’t reveal anything that I’m not suppose to. A lot of this comes down to, again, the ones that do really, really, really well, have a bigger AOV, so if you have a low average order value, it’s hard. Its very hard to get customers profitability if your AOV is fifteen bucks. It’s not that easy. If you have an average order value of a hundred dollars, two hundred, five hundred dollars, your ability to advertise, obviously, goes up. I think most people who have done any type of paid advertising understands how that works, already. Nothing unique there. It does make a big difference. Other things, too, are if you’re selling more like subscriptions, there’s the eCommerce subscription model.

Brett Curry:
Yeah.

William Harris :
[00:25:00] You can look at that from a lifetime value of your customer. Now, if you’re a bigger advertiser you should be looking at lifetime value, already, anyways. If you’re a smaller advertiser, you’re probably going to want to focus more on your cash run rate, so you know that maybe their lifetime value is a thousand dollars, but your average order value is still fifteen dollars, and it’s going to take you a couple of years for them to make enough purchases to pay you back the advertising. You cannot spend based on their lifetime value. You still got to be able to spend based on what you have to be able to spend the next month on advertising.

Brett Curry:
Right.

William Harris :
[00:26:00] If you’ve got the cash flow, and they’re a subscription based, and you know that on an average they spend fifteen dollars a month, but they do that for ten months, as your average, so you’ve got a hundred and fifty dollars, now as your AOV for what your lifetime value then for these customers, you can spend more to acquire that customer. I generally like to look at no more than one-third to acquire some type of a subscription based customer. If their lifetime value is nine hundred, spend three hundred dollars, should be okay, but that’s about the top of the line, you don’t want to spend more than that. Again, it is still going to come down to whether or not you can afford that from a run rate, from your cash flow standpoint.

Brett Curry:
Got it.

William Harris :
As far as specifics of this case, they did everything right. Everything we talked about, they had the right images, they had the right creative, they knew their audience, we had very specific targeting. They had an AOV of over a hundred dollars. We were able to just put everything into play, and there wasn’t a lot of other competitors in their space advertising.

[00:26:30] Brett Curry:

How long does it take to get to that level? Did that take months to dial that in? Was it more like weeks?

William Harris :
[00:27:00] For us, because we know where we want to move, and we can move quickly, we were able to get that to them here within about a month or two of testing, different things. It depends on your spend. If you’re only spending five hundred dollars a month, you cannot test as much. If you have a high enough spend, you can do a lot of testing very quickly, and learn a lot. You can do that in a matter of weeks, months, depending on the volume. I guess, it’s just independent. I would say usually within a month or two, you should be able to figure something out.

Brett Curry:
[00:27:30] I think one of the other important things is thinking about what types of ads. I was joking around about the boosted post, earlier, you’re talking about image ads, talking about remarketing ads, so for eCommerce and running these product ads, how else do you recommend using product ads in Facebook, or anything you can share on that topic.

William Harris :
Sure. Facebook also has the carousel ads. I really like those. Those are the ones where you can kind of swipe, and you see more, it’s like the Tinder of Facebook, or something.

Brett Curry:
Right.

William Harris :
[00:28:00] I don’t like that product. I don’t like that product. That’s the one, I’m going to click on that one. I really like that, because the a d might be engaging enough for them to see a product that they are kind of interested in, to swipe, and then maybe see the one that they really want, and go there. We do have a lot of good return on those. We also like to set up people with just some basic general targeting of your brand.

[00:28:30] If you have a brand that’s polarizing, doing something different, doing something new, and you want to kind of tell your story, I think that there’s a lot of eCommerce, especially, niche eCommerce shops, now, that are becoming more of capturing, again, coming back to that positioning, how can you tell that positioning and win fans, not necessarily customers, win fans, people who are now more than a customer, these are people who want to be your customer, and tell the world about you, because they are impacted by what you are doing. I think that those are also good ads, depending on your company, and then video is huge, too. If you have a product that would do really well with videos, then I think that makes sense. An example of that would probably be some bidet covers, toilet seat covers that are bidets, I mean, that’s all well and good, and …

Brett Curry:
I’ve been seeing those on Facebook, and other places. I’m not being retargeted. I don’t know.

[00:29:00] William Harris :

Yeah.

Brett Curry:
It’s like a trend, or something.

William Harris :
Yeah. They’re out there, man, there’s some good stuff out there that’s pushing it, and it’s an interesting content, but in America we’re not all that used to having something squirt water up at us when we’ve finished on the commode. It’s a little bit unique, and whatever, so a video might be a really great way for people to just kind of start getting you into that mindset, and kind of retargeting on you that. You might end up clicking over to this …

[00:29:30] Brett Curry:

Just a quick note, because this is funny, like to look at an ad that is arresting, I think the one I saw, recently, was something along the lines of, stop going to the bathroom like it’s 1890.

William Harris :
Yeah.

Brett Curry:
You know how primitive everything is. It’s effective use of Facebook marketing for sure.

William Harris :
[00:30:30] It is. Here’s the thing, though, then you click through, and this is where it’s really great, you have a product that’s not as easy to sell, but if you sell it, you’ve got a decent enough AOV, you can retarget them, you can market them first on just the idea of selling the concept of your product, they click through, you know know that they are more engaged, they’ve already clicked through, so they’re somewhat interested. Now, if you are going to send them a new one, you can create an audience of people that have visited that page, so you can get your own specific audiences in Facebook, and then target those people who have a more direct response ad. Now, you are actually going to ask them for a commit. The first time, you’re just telling them about he product, you’re asking them to visit the page, and learn more, but this next time, now, you’re going to ask them to commit. They are a little bit more likely to convert because of the nature that they’ve already learned a little bit more about the product, and how it works.

Brett Curry:
Yeah. It makes sense. Now, I’m saying, hey have you ever thought about a bidet, you savage, and then if I click, and I’m interested, and I’m like mildly interested, or maybe I’m curious, I just want to find out what this is about, now, you come back and say, “Okay. Here’s how you buy it, get an in home trial, discount,” whatever the offer may be.

William Harris :
Exactly.

Brett Curry:
We’ve now successfully laid out campaigns for apples, and bidet’s.

William Harris :
If you love apples, you may need the bidet.

Brett Curry:
[00:31:30] Exactly. Good stuff. Yeah. How often are you thinking about funnels, William? We were just talking about what would be a funnel, where you are saying, okay, let’s get an ad that will at least get interesting to people to take some action, and then we’re going to do some followup ads to kind of take them further in the shopping process, and eventually purchase. How often do you consider that, and any insights there? Because a lot of times with, take search as an example, you’re running an ad, sending them to a product detail, either they buy, or they don’t, get some remarketing, it’s not as funnel heavy as much in search, as it might be in Facebook. Any insights on funnels?

William Harris :
[00:32:00] Yeah. I don’t set up a lot of funnels for a lot of eCommerce, again, because if I’m paying to get you to that website, and I’m paying to get you to come back, the overall cost to acquire that customer at an AOV of twenty-five dollars, it’s not going to work. You are not going to be profitable. It does work if you need products described more. That need a little bit more introduction to them. It works very well for them. If you an AOV that’s going to be high enough to that, it works very well.

[00:32:30] Now, with that being said, almost all eCommerce campaigns, and that I guess, that I have set up, are doing some type of a funnel, and that’s the idea of I am advertising your brand, and then you go to the website, or you are advertising products, and you click on those products, and then I’m retargeting you. I am kind of setting up somewhat of a funnel, a dynamic funnel, using the Dynamic Retargeting, so that way any of these products that I’ve sent you to, if you still didn’t add them, I am still retargeting you, but not expressly setting up funnels for the nature of funnels.

Brett Curry:
Got it.

William Harris :
For both eCommerce.

Brett Curry:
[00:33:00] This is going to be a bit of, it’s going to be one of those questions where the answer is, it depends. I know that going in, but what are the ad formats that you find usually working best for eCommerce, and any insight around the mix of ad types. We talked video, carousel, remarketing, any insights around how you might think about splitting up your budget, and then also, any insights on which one often does better. I know that’s going to depend on the product.

William Harris :
[00:34:00] Sure. Starting with retargeting usually, because it’s going to be the easiest amount of return. Let’s say they’re spending a thousand dollars, and you’re getting five thousand dollars back, you now have a little extra income that you can put towards other campaigns, but it’s usually going to be the most positive ROA campaign. Then, start setting up, a lot of times we like to jump into the product carousels, most of the time, because it’s the next step removed from that, it’s still very product based. Especially if you have a lot of products. If you don’t, then you can get into, again, more of the limbic system type advertising, the psychological advertising. That’s usually the highest tier, and that’s usually the idea of bidding on your own brand, keywords in AdWords. We know that it works. We know that you’re still capturing more of an audience. We know that you are converting more, and it is going to drive more, when you’ve been on your own brand terms in AdWords, but it’s the same thing on Facebook, it’s still another way to reach more customers, and branch out, and capture conversions that you’d be missing out on, otherwise.

Brett Curry:
[00:34:30] Got it. Really just two extra things. This has been awesome. Tips for set up. For someone who’s setting up a campaign, maybe they are for the first time, or now that they are listening to this, and saying, wow, there is more than boosting my post, there’s all these ads, formats, and things I should be doing, targeting my audience, and with my products. Any insights on setup, that you would share?

William Harris :
[00:35:00] I’d say the first thing is, set it up as business dot, Facebook, dot com, so you can set it up as a business manager. It makes it a lot easier when you do decide that you want to work with somebody else. You want to bring in an agency. You want to hire a couple of staff, that are going to work on this. It just sets you up for it being a lot easier in the future, and working in that type of environment verses just having it still tied to your personal ad account.

[00:35:30] Then, the other tips for setup, I guess, would just be play around. Facebook has a ton of great references out there, as far as setting all this stuff up, and they walk you through it, really well. Of all ads platforms, I don’t think any of them do as good of a job of walking you through setting this up. Don’t worry about Power Editor, you’re probably not going to be doing that, as a solopreneur, or running a small eCommerce shop, just go ahead and set him up through that. If you need help, ask. Just talk to people who have done it.

Brett Curry:
This is where you also would be looking at setting up your events, like people who add to cart and don’t purchase, and things like that. To make sure that you’re collecting all the data that you need to collect, so that you can use it later.

William Harris :
Exactly. You got to set that up, from the very beginning. Don’t even start advertising until you have that set up, because then you’re going to spend a thousand dollars, and have no clue whether or not it did any good.

Brett Curry:
[00:36:00] Yeah. That might even be, so if someone isn’t in the boat, where they’re saying, “Okay. I know that I need to advertise on Facebook. I still want to learn, and grow,” they should probably go ahead and set up the pixel. Right?

William Harris :
Yeah.

Brett Curry:
Maybe start looking at creating some of these events so they can start building a list, since they’re ready to go, so those audiences are ready to go, when they’re ready to pull the trigger.

William Harris :
[00:36:30] Yeah. If they have those standard events set up, even if they’re not advertising, it’s still going to be tracked based. Facebook is going to be tracking whether people have purchased, whether they added to cart, and so you can start to see, make sure the pixel is set up, correctly. You’ll start to see, get some insights into that, that’s built into Facebook, now, you’ll be able to use for creating different audiences around that.

Brett Curry:
Awesome. What trends are you seeing William? Just a peer into the future, if you would, and I know it’s hard to do. Any trends? Any predictions of what’s coming next, or what’s happening with Facebook ads?

William Harris :
[00:37:30] I think a lot more people are going to be getting on them, end of this year, and 2017, I think it’s going to become less cost effective, but if you are one of the first people to get in there, for your type of niche, or your geographic location, or whatever, I think that you’ll have the opportunity to kind of capture a lot of the audiences quickly, and become kind of the go to brand for that. I think you’ll want to get on it, sooner than later, because I do think that there’s going to be a big migration of eCommerce people that are starting to adopt it. Not just small mom and pops, I’m talking about a lot of big, giant companies that still don’t advertise on Facebook, that I think are going to start advertising there.

[00:38:00] Then, the other thing that I think is going to be happening, I’m excited to see more data, as far as what you can target, and more granularization of, how do I say it? Right now, Facebook allows you to setup some custom audiences around things that they have done interacted with your posts, so if they’ve interacted with your video, if they’ve interacted with you legions, things like that. This is new, but I think that they’re going to expand that to more interaction based things, so that way people who have done this action on your page, or this action with these ads, and being able to target that way. That will be great for funnels setup, and if you are doing something like that, okay, I know that I’ve advertised them about this video, and now I can also engage these people who didn’t click through, to that page, but they’ve interacted with the video. They watched it.

Brett Curry:
Yeah.

William Harris :
They clicked it. They liked it. Whatever. They are still more engaged.

[00:38:30] Brett Curry:

Yeah. I think that’s huge, because then not only are you getting, you’re starting with what you think strategically is the best audience, but then you are separating that further based on the action that they take, and do they just totally pass through your video, and not watch it, did they engage with it, a little bit, and then building out segments around that. Super, super cool stuff. How can people get in touch with you, William? I know there’s going to be people listening, and saying, “Okay. I need to talk to someone. I need to look at specifics for my business,” how can people first read up on you, follow you, and then how can they connect with you?

William Harris :
[00:39:30] Sure. My website is Elumynt, phonetically like the period table of Elumynt, but it’s spelled, E-L-U-M-Y-N-T, dot com, and you can just drop a line there. I’ve got a contact form that you can send. On Twitter I’m pretty active, there, it’s just @WilliamHarris101, WMHarris101. Then, I’m writing all over the place. One of the places that I write, probably the most often about eCommerce is the [inaudible 00:39:30] blog, which is …

Brett Curry:
Awesome, blog.

William Harris :
[crosstalk 00:39:41]. You can ask me, comment on those, things like that, but I’m pretty easy to get a hold of.

Brett Curry:
[00:40:30] Yeah. You’re pretty easy find able online, for sure. I am super excited about Facebook marketing and where its going, and how it’s growing. I would echo your sentiments, just kind of look at the search side of things, and product listening ads, and how more, and more of the bigger guys are dumping more, and more money into product listening ads, and search in general. It does make it a little bit harder for the smaller merchants, so the sooner you can get in on Facebook ads, find what makes, what works for your business, the better off you’re going to be, because that is the one advantage of smaller businesses is we can be faster. We can innovate, we can execute, quicker, often than the big guys can, and do it smarter, as well. William, this has been fantastic, thank you so much. We’ll have to do this, again. Any parting words of wisdom for our listeners?

William Harris :
Parting words of wisdom. Man, I got nothing. I wasn’t ready for that question.

Brett Curry:
I know I totally … that was not far on my end. [crosstalk 00:40:52].

William Harris :
[00:41:00] What I’ve seen, I guess, going around on Facebook was be kind to everyone, and party on, or whatever, be excellent to each other, and party on.

Brett Curry:
Now that. See, there, now I knew, I don’t ask that question of everybody, but I knew you would have an answer, and that was a good answer. Be kind to everyone, and party on. I love it. Connect with William. As always, let us know what you thought about this show. Let us know what you’d like to see more of, less of. We would love it if you left us a review on iTunes, that helps other folks find out about us, with that until next time. Stay classy. Thanks William.

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